Help! How to from Goa to Karachi???

[sunnyxmoon]

Hiiii guys! I'm a newbie and I saw some awesome advice for others so I'm hoping I can get some help too!
It's my first time traveling to India, and I'm gonna be in Goa for the month of july for a short course in ayurveda and yoga. Any advice on what to bring (clothing-wise and meds, etc?)

The course is 3 wks (starting on july 6) and my flight back to reality is august 9 so then I wanted to goto karachi to visit my long lost best bud. I was looking for flights from goa to karachi in expedia and it's f@%^#%% ridiculous! and the flight goes from goa-mumbai-oman-karachi meaning a 16hr flight.... i'm pretty sure there's a WAY better way and way cheaper way to get there. please help????
pretty pretty please with whipped cream and a cherry on top?

[sunnyxmoon]

If I fly from Goa to Ahmadabad, is it possible for me to get a flight into Karachi? or train?

[worldwidemike]

If you get a chance, send a PM to Space Virgin, she has done quite a bit of travel in India and might know that...

worldwidemike

[sunnyxmoon]

I'm kinda new to this.. I can't find a link to PM people... how do you do it? I went to her profile but couldnt find a link there either.
Thaanx for the tip

[worldwidemike]

I'll send her a note and let her know to check this thread...

worldwidemike

[sunnyxmoon]

thank you worldwidemike!!!!!

[space virgin]

Hi there, sorry I didn't get to this sooner.

First of all, you're picking a VERY difficult time to travel in India-- monsoon season can be a bitch, let me tell you! That said you can stave off the worst as long as you keep a few things in mind: It's going to be HOT. And humid. And almost certainly rainy... really, REALLY RAINY. And you can't escape it. And it'll feel like you never completely dry out after a shower and/or rain shower. lol

In Goa, be careful swimming in the ocean because monsoon season can really affect tides. I went to Kerala in two separate seasons and the difference in the strength of tide was HUGE-- in August it was way stronger, like scary strong, even in the shallowest areas. Riptides abound, so familiarize yourself with how to escape them if you're planning on doing any swimming.

And bring DEET. Mosquitoes are a bitch. I personally don't bother with malaria meds because they're either 1. hideously expensive or 2. anti-biotics which make me sick anyway, so I just do like 1.2 billion locals do and brave it. Please note that I am NOT in any way, shape or form doling out medical advice here: you should research the pros and cons of taking malaria medication before you leave and weigh the consequences yourself. That said, I'm preparing for my 4th trip to India this August and I have not taken them since my first trip almost 3 years ago. Your mileage may vary.

I also recommend starting a regimen of probiotics (acidophilus, etc) at least a week before you leave and throughout your trip. There are a lot of brands out there that offer heat-stable tablets so you don't have to worry about refrigeration; I HIGHLY recommend taking probiotics while you're there. Seriously, it helps me avoid rumble-belly and worse while everyone else around me is puking and/or pooping up a storm. :D

For clothes, pick light-weight, loose-fitting items. Linen is nice and it dries quickly. Tight clothes and heavy fabrics such as denim are a bad idea; jeans are the DEVIL during monsoon, just don't do it. Also wear sandals: your feet get hot and wet, so flip-flops and/or sandals are the way to go instead of tennies. A pair of flip-flops is pretty much necessary for the almost-certainly-grotty bathrooms and showers you'll be encountering along the way.

If you're female (I'm assuming you are?), make sure that you have at least a few things that are somewhat modest if you plan to visit any temples or even a scarf/sarong to cover yourself with if need be. Also if you get your period, be warned that you cannot find tampons in India-- there are only pads, so if you hate pads you need to bring tampons with you. /end girly stuff

Do you already have your tourist visa for Pakistan? If so, disregard the next couple of paragraphs. If not, read this:

In order to go to Karachi you'll have to get a tourist visa for Pakistan (just like you do to go to India which I'm assuming you have already because if not you're really cutting it way too close). You can either apply before you leave the US (RECOMMENDED) or when you're in India you'll need to go to Delhi to the Pakistan Embassy. I think it's possible you'll also need an LOI (letter of introduction) from the US embassy as part of your paperwork but I haven't done an in-depth search about Pakistan visa formalities. The Pakistan Embassy in Delhi is in Chanakyapuri where pretty much all the other embassies are. I'm pretty sure you're going to be stuck in Delhi for a few days at least while you wait for the visa to process, so plan for extra time.

So as far as I know right now, it's hard to fly from India to Pakistan without going from a different country (hence your itinerary telling you Oman), let alone from Goa. No matter what you're almost certainly going to need to head back to Mumbai or likely Delhi as Goa is NOT a large airport.

There is a train that goes from Delhi -> Jodhpur -> Karachi. It's called the "Thar Express" and if memory serves it takes at least 24 hours. Check out Pakistan's railway site: Pakistan Railway

Although I feel I must ask: Are you SURE you want to go there right now? Karachi seems to be at least a little bit outside of the obvious trouble areas, but as someone who went to Kashmir when she really shouldn't have, even I would think twice before visiting Pakistan at the moment.

At the very least, if you're female make sure you buy a few salwar kameez outfits while in India (long tunic-type top with matching pants and scarf). If you're a dude, well, you should be fine. (Sad but true)

Let me know if you have any other questions, I promise to check back again soon.

[sunnyxmoon]

OMG thank you you oh so wise one!!
I was actually going to ask about the Thar express. which i found and have been trying to research but can't find anything about how to book it or anything. I saw the website you gave me for the Pakistani rail but it doesnt seem to have the Thar express.. Do you have any idea of the fares or how i could book it? and this is the only way to go directly from India to Pakistan right?
Also, is Delhi and new delhi the same thing? because I saw a post of yours with all these different intra-india flights (spicejet etc) that we could prolly take to delhi from goa and then go from there onto the thar..

Do you think it's not safe? we NEED to goto Pakistan while we're in India bc we need to see a friend. It's going to be 3 girls.. do you think that's ok?
But we're going south so it should be fine no?

So monsoon season not so good huh? does that mean no tanning? hehe
can I wear a bathing suit? (oh me and my partner in crime are both girls.. ) or definitely not kinda thing? (or its probably gonna rain so much that there will be no point in bringing one anyway?)
So loose fitting clothing will be best? are tank tops a no no? and definitely no shorts?

I hear Goa's very 'touristy' sorta place? and a 'party destination'?
Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuu sooooooooooooooo much space virgin!!!! and your pictures are AMAZING!! you're a photographer?

[space virgin]

You're welcome!! And yeah, photography is a big hobby of mine.

"Delhi" and "New Delhi" are the same place-- the names are interchangeable except when it comes to railway stations. "Delhi" usually refers to the older, northern part of the city, and "New Delhi" usually refers to the south part-- but it's the same city and the same airport.

I could write at least two posts' worth of warnings about what will most likely happen to you when departing the Delhi airport and attempting to get transportation across town to the railway station... we'll leave that for later, but notice I said "attempting".

Goa, aside from the Taj Mahal, is the most touristy place in India. Lots and lots of parties! Monsoon is WAY off-season so there won't be as many people (and I've also heard that most of the shops tend to close as well) but there will still be some others around, I'm sure you'll meet plenty of people.

I've heard from several people that a lot of the hard-core Goa crowd can be long-term travelers of the self-righteous hippie flavor telling you things like "whatever man, you haven't seen the REAL India until you've done blah blah blah etc etc etc." Ignore them and move on, no one but you gets to decide if you've seen the "real India" or not (what does that mean anway? sheesh).

If you're on the beach you can certainly get away with wearing a bathing suit and/or shorts and tank tops as there are more westerners in Goa than pretty much everywhere else in India combined (even in monsoon, haha). And you may as well bring a bathing suit as it won't take up much room and there's certainly bound to be at least a little sun! However, understand that you WILL be heavily stared at as groups of Indian men have cottoned on to the notion of scantily clad western women on the beaches and they cruise up and down gawking to their hearts' content and snapping photos with their mobile phones constantly. Just don't attempt to enter any temples or even some shops wearing anything other than proper clothes: my go-to pants are cropped cargos but anything trouser-like and not too tight is fine (EXCEPT THE DREADED JEANS!! Don't do it) and if you wear a skirt make sure it's at least knee-length or longer; t-shirt with minimal chest/cleavage showing, no short shorts or tank tops. India is a very conservative country regardless of the climate.

So do you have the Pakistan visa situation sorted?

Honestly no, I really wouldn't recommend going there now regardless of location. There's nowhere in the country deemed "safe", Karachi has had several incidents of terrorist activity and the rest of the country is having severe problems every day. The Taliban situation is really getting out of hand and it's not just the Swat valley that's a target anymore, the violence is spilling out all over the country. Political instability is getting worse and worse, if you can imagine that. Even three girls traveling together-- especially if you look foreign (read: not South Asian) or especially Western (read: white) are going to be a major draw of attention. It's awful to say this but if someone from Pakistan--preferably someone male-- was traveling to India, or at least the border, to escort you there it would be a lot better but still not ideal.

So... why can't your Pakistani friend meet you in India?

If it's absolutely non-negotiable (but please read this first!!!) and you MUST go to Pakistan and you don't really have any other choice and your visa is 100% sorted and you're absolutely willing to risk it, here's what I would do: when you arrive in Goa, head to the largest train station closest to wherever you're going to be-- I think the main one is Madgaon but I'm not sure-- and go to the reservations desk and ask them about booking a journey on the Thar Express from Delhi to Karachi. They can book tickets for you on any train in the country, not just trains departing from that station. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU BOOK 2-TIER AC CLASS IF YOU CAN GET IT. IF IT'S NOT AVAILABLE THEN GO 3-TIER AC. The reason for this is primarily security. Also have some sort of chain and either combination or key lock so you can chain up your backpack/suitcase to the berths so no one walks away with it in the middle of the night.

At the very very least, if you decide to risk it, make sure you register with the US Consulate General in Karachi as soon as you arrive. They'll probably tell you to leave but make sure you let them know you're there or they can't help you!

I'll try to think of some more stuff, but that should do you for now.

[sunnyxmoon]

So.. To get to the Thar express then we'll have to goto Delhi by plane, then goto the train station to catch this right? mm... sounds scarily ominous when you say the 'attempt' of getting to the train station?

I am determined that I am going to make this trip to Pakistan.
I am sorting the visa situation right now so I guess that'll have to be first before anything.

Actually, we're 2 asian (chinese, korean) girls and one caucasian girl. that'll probably be more interesting no?

[space virgin]

Yeah unfortunately, anyone who isn't obviously of subcontinent or middle-eastern origin attracts a LOT of attention, whether you're white, Asian, black, purple, green, whatever: the locals LOVE to stare at anyone foreign. Mostly it's friendly but like I said beware the roving bands of guys snapping photos with their phones!

I have heard that Karachi is a nice city and people are generally very friendly. I really hope that everything goes okay and nothing happens. You should know though that anti-American groups are very much alive and well in Karachi, in fact there's an anti-American rally by Jamaat-e-Islami taking place this Sunday and violence is expected.

Yes, you will have to fly to Delhi, or you could fly to Mumbai and take a train to Jodhpur and catch it from there but it'll take about 3 days longer to do that. The only other way I know of to get to Pakistan is via Attari-Lahore near Amritsar but that is significantly out of the way.

The deal with trying to get from the airport in Delhi to the train station is that pretty much all of the rickshaw and taxi drivers are in on the travel agency touting racket. They will drive around for a while, pretend to get lost and stop by a "tourist office" for "directions", whereupon you will be brought into said tourist office (really just a travel agency) by very charming, very gregarious and often very good-looking individuals determined to sell you a car-and-driver trip round Rajasthan.

Regardless of the scare tactics the guidebooks try to give you about them, they're not evil and they're not dangerous. They can be a nuisance (albeit sometimes quite entertainingly) and will just use up a lot of your time and you will have to be very firm in your refusal of their assistance. If this happens to you just show them your train ticket and you should be okay. Although they will almost certainly insist upon booking the rest of your stay in India when you come back from Pakistan.

[sunnyxmoon]

hahaha well.. i guess i'm already used to the stares and funny looks! I used to live in Mexico so asian's something of a "ooooo" factor. hehe

The Delhi ricksaw or taxi thing will be just all a show. But being stern and mean is no good right? just stern?

Do you by any chance know how long the Thar express trip approx. takes? And how long Goa-->Delhi is?

Oooh oh.. another question.. Elephants? can we see them anywhere? or is there a city where this is best seen?

and FOOOD... I am a food whore and I looove trying new things. What would you recommend I do/not do? (I know the banana leaf plate thing and eating with your hands.. but i'm being told not to do that. what do you think?)

thank you again you wealth of knowledge

[space virgin]

If you should happen to be whisked away by a rickshaw or taxi driver to a tourist office, just be stern and insist that you need to get to the train station. Being mean is usually not necessary (although could be sometimes). Let's just say I have quite a bit of experience with this for several different reasons.

It looks like the Thar Express will take about 36 hours from Delhi and it's possible you have to change coaches at Munbao, where you'll stop for customs & immigration. If that's the case you'll be directed where to go. The most I could figure out, time-wise, was that it takes almost 24 hours from Jodhpur to Karachi and I know from experience that the trip from Jodhpur to Delhi is about 12 to 13 hours via train, so 36-ish hours sounds about right.

If you're going to travel by train from Goa to Delhi, the "Mangala Express" is the main direct train. It's a 32-hour journey. Train bathrooms can be absolutely disgustingly GHASTLY places!! One piece of major advice: when using the train toilet you almost always have a choice of "western style" with a sitting toilet, or a squat toilet. USE THE SQUAT TOILET. I wouldn't sit on a western toilet in a train (or almost ANY public place, really) if you paid me. Hell no. Just get used to squatting and pray that the train isn't swaying too much when you go so you can avoid touching the walls.

Flying would be considerably easier although somewhat more expensive.

Wait, did you hear that you shouldn't eat with your hands or you shouldn't eat food cooked in banana leaves?? Either one is rubbish. Eat with your hands if you're at someone's house; just make sure it's the RIGHT HAND! Don't put something in your mouth with your left hand. Wash your hands fairly often and before eating use purell on them if you feel you've been touching questionable surfaces. (Purell comes in really handy little miniature bottles.)

Typically home-cooked Indian meals are served and eaten while sitting on the floor with everyone gathered around sitting in a circle with plates on the floor; it can take a bit of practice to learn to scoop the rice and daal/whatever just right so that it all makes it into your mouth without dropping. Sitting at an angle leaning over your plate is always a good idea. LOL

Typically, most restaurants provide utensils which everyone uses. If there aren't any on the table or they don't bring you any without asking, feel free to use your hands if you feel comfortable enough to do so.

Don't fret constantly about getting sick. Pick establishments that seem to do a good amount of business (meaning the food isn't sitting around uncooked for too long), wash your hands (dry them thoroughly if you're eating with them) or use purell and you should be fine. Like I said before, start a pro-biotic (acidophilus) regimen and keep it up while you're there. I like "Jarrow" brand pro-biotics personally.

Oh I forgot one thing: if you can, try to bring a bunch of baby wipes. I buy a refill container and put them in a ziploc bag (or two). They're absolutely invaluable: you can clean any part of your body with them, they double as toilet paper when necessary and they're cheap. Trust me, you'll be glad you did.

[sunnyxmoon]

Ok so finally i got in touch with my paki friend and we decided to fly PIA (pakistani international air) and that'll save us waaaaayyy lot of time. and not so expensive yay!!:D
(direct from mumbai into karachi! :D)

But.. i'm kinda confused... there is absolutely no place in india where we could buy toilet paper?? we have to pack it from home and bring enough for as long as we're there?
or we could buy some there but have to bring it everywhere with us?

I just got the pearl acidophilus thingys and started on that.

So.. we're doing a course that takes up 5 days a week. Can we travel on weekends to places that you were talkin about?

thanx a million times space virgin!

[space virgin]

Yes, of course you can travel around. Goa is quite a long way from any "major" sites, but I'm sure you'll figure out something. Count on long train rides or forking out money for flights but it will be worth it.

Although you should note that ALL national parks in India are closed during monsoon season, so don't plan on doing much in the way of wildlife trekking.

So... where did you get the idea that you can't buy toilet paper there? Of course you can. It's just not readily available all the time and not provided in many hotel rooms, so if you come across it while shopping you may as well pick up a roll. The baby wipes are a just-in-case thing, and also for the moments when your face/hands/nether regions need a quick cleaning and there aren't any facilities around.

Are you staying at an ashram or is this for an accredited university course?

[sunnyxmoon]

We'll be staying at a ayurvedic retreat center sorta thing.. where we'll be doing a yoga n ayurveda course for 3 weeks. just to get a taste and see what it's all about.

the toilet paper thing.. dont ask.. i'm being confused by all these people saying different things and saying i should pack toilet paper. ok good so there IS TP. good.
baby wipes check.

So what places would you highly recommend that would be 'somewhat' close?
I heard Kerala was great and rajasthan?

[space virgin]

Kerala is absolutely wonderful but it's not terribly different from Goa (other than a lot less tourists and hippies). A cruise on the backwaters is fabulous, but can sometimes be a little pricey especially if you want to stay on an overnight houseboat. One advantage is that the ocean is almost always a LOT cleaner in Kerala than in Goa.

Rajasthan is great but it's hell and gone from Goa-- plan on at least a 20+ hour train ride for the southernmost part. Flying would be better if you're pressed for time.

Mumbai would be a really fun weekend, it's about 8 to 10-hours(ish) train ride. There's also the ancient city of Hampi about 8 hours east from Goa. If you had more than 2 days per break I'd also suggest the Ellora and Ajanta caves but they're an additional 6+ hour train ride north east from Mumbai.

If you don't have one already you should pick up a good guidebook and really comb through it-- I recommend either Rough Guide or Footprint; the current Lonely Planet is way outdated. Regardless always take listed prices with a major grain of salt-- India's prices have risen exponentially every year for the past 5 years.