flag burning amendment

[wong name]

hopefully it will pass this time.....i didnt realize it had been struck down 4 times........at the very least burning an american flag in the u.s. should be illegal.

House Approves Move to Outlaw Flag Burning

By LAURIE KELLMAN
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning cleared the House Wednesday but faced an uphill battle in the Senate. An informal survey by The Associated Press suggested the measure doesn't have enough Senate votes to pass.

The 286-130 outcome was never in doubt in the House, which had passed the measure or one like it five times in recent years. The amendment's supporters expressed optimism that a Republican gain of four seats in last November's election could produce the two-thirds approval needed in the Senate as well after four failed attempts since 1989.

But an AP survey Wednesday found 35 senators on record as opposing the amendment - one more than the number needed to defeat it if all 100 senators vote, barring a change in position.

Late Wednesday, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., revealed that she would vote against the measure. "I don't believe a constitutional amendment is the answer," Clinton, a possible presidential candidate in 2008, said in a statement.

Sen. Ken Salazar, D-Colo., remained undecided, a spokesman said.

The House debate fell along familiar lines over whether the amendment strengthened the Constitution or ran afoul of its free-speech protections.

Supporters said there was more public support than ever because of emotions following the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York and Washington. They said detractors are out of touch with public sentiment.

"Ask the men and women who stood on top of the Trade Center," said Rep. Randy (Duke) Cunningham, R-Calif. "Ask them and they will tell you: pass this amendment."

Audio
Sensenbrenner says the flag deserves to be protected by the constitution.

Critics accused the amendment's supporters of exploiting the attacks to trample the right to free speech.

"If the flag needs protection at all, it needs protection from members of Congress who value the symbol more than the freedoms that the flag represents." said Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., whose district includes the site of the former World Trade Center.

Since 1789, there have been more than 11,000 attempts in Congress to amend the Constitution; only 27 amendments have won ratification. The last, in 1992, prevents Congress from passing a law giving itself a pay raise before the next election. The 26th Amendment, in 1971, extended the right to vote to citizens as young as 18.

One of the most recent amendments that received congressional approval but failed to gain ratification by states was the Equal Rights Amendment. It would have set into law equality between men and women. The period for states to ratify it expired in 1982.

The last time the Senate voted on the flag-burning amendment, the tally was 63 in favor and 37 against, four votes short of the two-thirds majority needed.

Now, with more than two dozen new members, a four-seat Republican gain in the last election and a public still stung by the terrorist attacks in 2001, activists on both sides say the Senate could be within a vote or two of passage.

But the amendment's prospects faded late Wednesday when Democratic Sens. Maria Cantwell of Washington and Mark Pryor of Arkansas revealed that they would oppose it.

Possible presidential contenders who have supported the amendment in the past include Evan Bayh, D-Ind., Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., and John McCain, R-Ariz.

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., a likely presidential candidate, has said he would oppose the amendment.

The proposed one-line amendment to the Constitution reads, "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States." For the language to be added to the Constitution, it must be approved by two-thirds of those present in each chamber, then ratified within seven years by at least 38 state legislatures.

The amendment is designed to overturn a 5-4 Supreme Court ruling in 1989 that flag burning is a protected free-speech right. That ruling threw out a 1968 federal statute as well as flag-protection laws in 48 states. The law was a response to anti-Vietnam War protesters setting fire to American flags at demonstrations.

The Senate could consider the measure as soon as next month

[agriadam]

last time I checked we lived in a free cou.....Ima gonna shutt up now

[Arthur]

burning the amerincan flag is an attack on america and should outlaws if not prosocuted.

[kingcrazylegs]

oh brother....politics......

I don't think it should be past into law.....but that just me.

[space virgin]

I don't think it should be passed into law either. But that's just me (too). B)

[JiveTurkey]

I agree that burning the flag is wrong and should be illegal.. I'm all about free speach, and if someone burns the flag they should not get death, but they should be fined.. If they want to burn it, then they can leave it and move somewhere else.... to me burning the flag is giving the finger to everyone in the armed forces... just not right..

[Arthur]

thank you live turkey,
its purely dissrespectful. its bad engouh to let it touch the ground. but to burn it on perpus the the most disrepset ful think i can think of, it is like pissing on all america stands for

[LaurieL622]

I don't think it should be passed into law either. But that's just me (too).

me too too.


i'm in the mood to burn my underwear...which happen to have the american flag print...am i going to get arrested for that?

[Arthur]

no because thats nto the amercan flag, its on a mericandice item and its illegal to put the american flag on any thing other than a flag. if you count the stars or stripes of any thing on mercendice its not the american flag, it just looks like it. even on the forth of july, nothing truly is the american flag, execpt for the flags them self.

[agriadam]

Originally posted by LaurieL622@Jun 23 2005, 05:23 PM

me too too.


i'm in the mood to burn my underwear...which happen to have the american flag print...am i going to get arrested for that?

okay me too as well





if you do decide to burn your panties I want pictures

[kingcrazylegs]

Originally posted by LaurieL622@Jun 23 2005, 05:23 PM

me too too.


i'm in the mood to burn my underwear...which happen to have the american flag print...am i going to get arrested for that?

Can you send me a pic when you do?

its purely dissrespectful. its bad engouh to let it touch the ground. but to burn it on perpus the the most disrepset ful think i can think of, it is like pissing on all america stands for

How many things do you think we do (collectively or individually) that others find disrespectful? Happens all the time. You know what, if they are smart people get over it. If someone is throwing shit on my values I walk away.

[space virgin]

^

Adding a little bit of humor here: Arthur, sweetie, you should spell "disrespectful" properly when used in a serious context.

[LaurieL622]

its purely dissrespectful. its bad engouh to let it touch the ground. but to burn it on perpus the the most disrepset ful think i can think of, it is like pissing on all america stands for

“Disrespectful” is relative…and in my opinion, not a good enough reason why something should be illegal

here's a solution for those offended by flag burning....

If someone is throwing shit on my values I walk away.

and yes, i would be happy to send pics of my patriotic undies going up in flames.

[Joker]

I have mixed feelings.

It is a symbol of this country, as much as the Constitution or a Bald Eagle. Desecrating those would be met with harsh punishments. Hell, you shoot a Bald Eagle you'll do time! Hard time!

However, the ACLU would have a field day claiming it restricts freedom of speech, etc etc. And thats gonna cost me money in the legal battles. I'd rather not see my tax dollars going to that one...

Anyone here know how to properly dispose of a flag?

Answer: Burn it. Respectfully.

Usually you take a tattered/torn flag to the local VFW and they'll dispose of it properly, burning it respectfully (not in a protest, duh.) .

[xanthuos]

OK, I get really pissed that this is even being considered, so I've got to throw in my piece.

Go ahead, all you dumbass right-wing sons-a-bitches and pass an amendment banning burning the official flag of the United States. Guess what then? I'll just burn this one:


To quote the blog that the image came from, and whose words I agree with 100%:

\"Protecting\" the flag with a Constitutional Amendment won't solve the not-at-all pressing problem of people burning flags for political protest. They'll still do it. They'll simply do it in ways that will now additionally mock the stupidity of those who love the symbol of American freedoms more than they love actual American freedoms. And no matter how expansively Congress defines \"the American Flag\" there will always be something that is not the flag, but is close enough in its shape and structure to feel just like the flag. And there will be the people who will use that not-quite-flag-like object to protest.

And you know what? Good for them. They're being better Americans than those who would pass a flag-burning Amendment. Real Americans don't take away the freedoms of other Americans.

>>>Cracking The Flag-Burning Amendment

GOD, I'M GONNA GO BREAK SOMETHING.

[kingcrazylegs]

Originally posted by LaurieL622@Jun 23 2005, 05:45 PM
and yes, i would be happy to send pics of my patriotic undies going up in flames.

I like you style!

oh, and you should only send it to those of us who won't be offended

It is a symbol of this country, as much as the Constitution or a Bald Eagle. Desecrating those would be met with harsh punishments. Hell, you shoot a Bald Eagle you'll do time! Hard time!

An eagle is a living thing, a flag is an inanimate object. But I get the symbolic value of both...but a little perspective for ya...the US almost used the turkey as the national symbol, and hell that is now like the national meal at thanksgiving! Don't you get time for shooting a bald eagle because its endangered? If it was a little more meaty and more common we might me eating the darn thing. Anyhow, what I am saying is we give them value in a symbolic way...we could do that with anything. Burning a flag only hurts peoples' pride if they let it do so.

[xanthuos]

Oh, and LaurieL622, I'm sure pictures of you burning your Old Glory-decorated panties would help calm my nerves and remind me of how much I love my country...even if the bastards in the White House and Congress work every day to erode the very reasons I love it.

[space virgin]

Hey xanthuos-- calm down, dude! It's only Thursday!

*edited to add: There's a reason they're (I'm pretty sure we all know who I'm referring to) being referred to as the American Taliban...

[GoKrazy]

I usually don't get involved in political or religious discussions (since I strongly believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and nobody should force their beliefs on anyone else), but in this case I only have a question:

Instead of making the burning of the flag illegal, shouldn't the governing parties pay more attention to WHY people want to do it in the first place?

Personally I think that passing laws like that is a waste of time and money, because they are dealing with the symptoms instead of the problems. But that's just me...

[Arthur]

this goes to xanthuos


thats it, all i have to say.