Maghreb Mike...?

[worldwidemike]

Hi folks,

I'm still chewing on ideas for my 2 weeks of vacation in November. One of them that I've been considering for a couple years now is a transit across North Africa. I was thinking of maybe flying into Morocco, taking buses across Algeria to Tunisia, then finishing up in Libya. I know it'd be incredibly hurried to see much of four countries in little more than two weeks. However, I was thinking of making it a kind of theme trip....relics of the Ancient world, or whatever. There are some amazing Roman ruins in North Africa, and as long as I don't kid myself that I'm trying to see the whole country, it could be a really cool journey...

Any thoughts, info or ideas?

worldwidemike

[pinknic38]

That would be an amazing trip! I really want to see Africa. I though you were trying for the Galapagos in November?

I guess maybe after September in Peru, November in Ecuador might be a little South America overkill?

[ajb3000]

I hate to throw a spanner in the works but a couple of small problems Mike. Firstly, the Morocco / Algerian border is completely closed with the exception of a few smugglers so the only way to cross it (legally) would be by boat via Spain, or a long loop down south. Secondly, I don't think Libya is issuing visas to Americans at the moment, and if you could obtain one, it would have to be on a guided tour.

[mbo108]

Mike, there is some interesting reading on the State Dept.'s website. Some highlights include

The Government of Libya does not allow persons with passports bearing an Israeli visa or entry/exit stamps to enter the country. At this time, neither Libya nor the U.S. provides visa services to the general public in each other’s countries; U.S. visitors to Libya should therefore plan to obtain a visa via a third country. Libyan visas require an invitation or sponsor, can take up to several months to process, and should be obtained prior to travel. All visas are vetted and approved by immigration departments in Tripoli and only issued by the appropriate Libyan Embassy upon receipt of that approval. There may be another wait for actual visa issuance once approval has been received. For tourists, the visa application procedure in most cases requires a letter of invitation from an accredited tour company in Libya; for business travelers, a letter of invitation is needed from the Libyan business entity. Americans who apply for Libyan visas are experiencing significant delays, often waiting several weeks or months if their applications are approved at all. Inconsistent Libyan visa practice is subject to change without notice and visa service to American citizens is often blocked without warning. With few exceptions, Libya has stopped issuing tourist visas to Americans. It is recommended that Americans always obtain individual Libyan visas prior to travel, rather than group visas. Americans who expected to enter on group tour visas or individual airport visas arranged by Libyan sponsors have routinely been denied entry at the air and sea ports and have been forced to turn back at the airport or remain onboard ship at the port while other nationals disembark. The U.S. Embassy in Tripoli cannot provide assistance to American citizens seeking Libyan visas.
Inquiries about obtaining a Libyan visa may be made through the Libyan Embassy in Washington, D.C. The Embassy is located at 2600 Virginia Avenue NW – Suite 705, Washington, DC 20037, phone number 202-944-9601, fax number 202-944-9606. Neither the Libyan Mission to the UN in New York nor the Libyan Embassy in Washington, DC accepts visa applications. The closest Libyan visa-issuing office to the continental United States is the Libyan People’s Bureau in Ottawa, Canada; however, that office frequently declines to accept visa applications from American citizens. The land borders with Egypt and Tunisia are subject to periodic closures even to travelers with valid Libyan visas. Short-term closures of other land borders may occur with little notice. Within three days of arrival, visitors must register at the police station closest to where they are residing or they may encounter problems during their stay or upon departure.

Not that any of this should deter you, but just to let you know in advance...

[worldwidemike]

Thanks, guys. Now, for the government conspiracy angle: How many of you think that what the government put on its website reflects actual practice that is occurring in Libya (US citizens being turned back; Libya denying visas), and how much do you think it reflects a bias of our government in *NOT* wanting its citizens to visit Libya, learn that the people are not the evil, anti-American pirates that Bush thinks they are? Remember all the anti-Syria rhetoric the US Government spews. I've been to Syria and the people were friendly and welcoming.

Adam, thanks for the info on the Moroccan-Algerian border. I wasn't aware of that. I could still do Algeria, Tunisia and Libya, assuming the visa situation worked out...

I'd really be interested in reading the opinions of Tpunkers...

worldwidemike

[ajb3000]

Well Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman did a bike trip last summer from the UK to South Africa and they went through Libya, however the two Americans in the support team could not get visas so had to fly from Tunisia to Egypt. They tried both in London and Tunis with no luck and they had a whole team behind them.

If you arrange a guided tour then things might be easier, but that would be expensive and ruin the experience somewhat.

[DC_Jessica]

#1 - JEALOUS!

#2 - I think the government warning is "serious" in that you can still find a way in (it's an Arab country, of COURSE there's a way in - even a safe one, I'm sure). But if even the smallest thing happens, the US won't stick its neck out for you. (Which seems to be a trend with America...they run their mouths about anti-Americanism and disloyalty but don't bargain when citizens are kidnapped...whatever.)

[mbo108]

Mike, I agree that it could be trumped up because of the strained US-Libya relations but at the same time I *hope* the State Department would try to use honesty when informing its citizens about visiting a particular country. And note, it doesn't say anywhere that Libyans will spit on you, refuse to sell you a hotel bed, try to kidnap you, etc., it's just a reporting of the rules as they see them. And the website lists the Libyan Embassy's phone number - 202-944-9601 - why don't you give them a call and see what they tell you?

Hope it works out, I love reading your travelogues!

[worldwidemike]

Thanks, folks! I think I will give them a call and see what they say. Then, if I'm rebuffed, maybe I'll call the Ottawa embassy and see what *it* says. Honestly, I think the Libyans would want Americans to come and visit, just so they can show "Dubya & the Stay-at-Homes" that their full of crap.

I'll keep you all posted...

worldwidemike

[tumblezweedz]

^^There are also other countries in the world where what the general populace wants and what the official government policies allow are not in perfect accord.

Checking with the Canadian gov't would probably be a good back-up plan, but if there are US passport specific issues, that's what you're going to be stuck with.

The Magreb is magical, I was sorely disappointed to have to cancel our trip to Tunisia this year, but that's the way it goes, sometimes. Morocco is magnificent, and you could easily spend the whole trip there, or just in Tunisia if you have difficulty arranging the Algerian/Libyan portions of the trip. I don't think you'd be disappointed. I was easily able to plan a two week itinerary for Tunisia alone, with heavy emphasis on those ancient sites - travel times to some of the more isolated areas are an issue too. And you could take a couple of days out in the Sahara, which would be pretty a-a-a-mazing, if you ask me. I just started reading Michael Palin's book, "Sahara" and am loving it - haven't got to the Tunisia bit yet, as he went south from Morocco first and circled around.

Good luck, hope it works out for you!

[worldwidemike]

Originally Posted by tumblezweedz

I just started reading Michael Palin's book, "Sahara" and am loving it - haven't got to the Tunisia bit yet, as he went south from Morocco first and circled around.

I take a gander at the library and see if they have this book! Sounds good. And yeah, I know I probably could spend the whole two weeks in just one country...I just like the idea of traveling across the Maghreb from country to country. Sounded so cool, so romantic, and so anti-what Bush wants Americans to be doing...!

Thanks for the advice, Tamara!

worldwidemike

[space virgin]

Sahara is a great book. I also recommend his "Himalaya" book, it's coffee table size with some fantastic pictures.

Mike, this sounds like a GREAT trip!!

[tumblezweedz]

Yeah, the only bad thing is my 7 year old son, who is a reading maniac, picked up the book in the car the other day and is farther ahead in it than I am. Now he knows more about Africa than I do, and I've actually BEEN there!:eek:

[worldwidemike]

Okay, so the Libyan Embassy e-mailed me back and said, basically, "We do business and professional visas for Americans to visit Libya. Contact the Ottawa embassy for a tourist visa." No discouragement otherwise.

I'll keep you updated. Oh, and I checked "Sahara" out of the library and started reading it...

worldwidemike

[worldwidemike]

It's been a week and still no reply from the Ottawa embassy to my e-mail. I may have to telephone them, I'm thinking.

I'll keep you posted.

worldwidemike

[Canadian Bacon]

I'm in Ottawa Mike.

PM me if I can be of assistance.